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<warly> So, first question.
<Yannoux84> yeah me
<warly> I can introduce myself, too.
<warly> Yannoux84.
<warly> I have been working since november 1999.
<warly> For Mandrakesoft.
<Yannoux84> Do you know when is mdk official launched for the members ?
<warly> I was, by that time, the guy who created the QA department.
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<misc> Ayo: \o/
<warly> Mdk official will likely be available in November.
<warly> Maybe pascal_joly has the official launch date?
<Yannoux84> warly but for the members ?
<pascal_joly> we do not have yet
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<warly> Yannoux84, I guess arround November, 10th
<warly> Yannoux84, but this is not decided yet.
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<pascal_joly> i mean we do not have the date yet
<Yannoux84> warly but in november it s for the the box ?
<Yannoux84> pascal_joly ok
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<pascal_joly> for pre orders and special download for club members
<warly> Yannoux84, usually the ISO are available in the same time as the preorders.
<Christophe_BAEGERT> hi everybody
<misc> Christophe_BAEGERT: hi alone
<Yannoux84> pascal_joly because I think taht the members can download mdk official before november
<warly> Moreover
<Eugene_Weiss> Is the problem with the OpenOffice thesaurus fixed in official?
<fundawang> May I?
<misc> warly: will the ftp be forked at the same time ?
<pascal_joly> Christophe_BAEGERT: hi
<warly> I have not yet made the 10.1 Official Download CDs.
<misc> Eugene_Weiss: which problem ?
<warly> misc, no, before.
<newimr> arg
<Yannoux84> oki
<warly> misc, at least cooker will be opened before.
<pascal_joly> i am the only one with 10.1 at home 
<misc> pascal_joly: i do too
<pascal_joly> ;)
<warly> pascal_joly anyone with cooker has the 10.1 right now.
<misc> at least, i did until laptop stopped working
<Yannoux84> pascal_joly oki, and the members acn't have this version before november ?
<newimr> i promised 10.1 to my wife last week, I'm so dead.
<warly> except for the mandrakelinux-release package and the mandrakelinux-theme package.
<blino> warly: how can one get updates for 10.1 Community ?
<Eugene_Weiss> The thesaurus entry is grayed out unless the line THES en US th_en_US (or whatever)
<warly> blino, right now we can't, except via cooker
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<pascal_joly> esfa: hi
<warly> blino, I will try to update the 10.1 community tree.
<misc> Eugene_Weiss: i can check, just give me a way to test it
<warly> esfa.
<Eugene_Weiss> is added to the file usr/share/dict/ooo/dictionary.lst
<blino> thanks warly
<fundawang> warly, How is the release schedule made? by develope team, or market department?
<eTTo> hi
<misc> Eugene_Weiss: maybe ou need another package
<warly> Yannoux84, moreover we are not yet sure of the 10.1 Official.
<misc> eTTo: hi
<warly> Yannoux84, a major problem can still slow the process.
<Yannoux84> warly oki
<warly> fundawang, mainly for historical reason the schedule is based on previous releases.
<Eugene_Weiss> No -- I just have to edit that line. This is an officially reported bug and everything.
<pascal_joly> ok now let s start the chat with warly without "hi"... 
<misc> Eugene_Weiss: officialy reported where ?
<newimr> How important are the sales of the powerpacks to the society? Would a bigger interval between the packs really mean less sales? I heard most of them are done around christmas.
<misc> pascal_joly: "hello" ?
<warly> fundawang, but the marketing, as well as developers, can make it change a little regarding the outside world (partner, release of KDE, kernel...)
<Eugene_Weiss> i don't know if it's limited to the en_US locale, though.
<warly> newimr, this we do not really know.
<Eugene_Weiss> Reported on Mandrake bugzilla. Sorry, I don't have the bug # on hand at the moment.
<warly> newimr, before we were making from 3 to 4 releases per year
<Janfi> warly : are you satisfied by the new development scheme (cooker/community/official). Is there evolution or modification in prevision ?
<warly> newimr, and we are discussing about other release cycles.
<misc> Eugene_Weiss: ok, i will check
<newimr> We too on the forums, that's what I ask.
<warly> newimr, however this could have a significant impact in our revenues.
<warly> Janfi, I must admit that I am quite satisfied, yes.
<warly> Janfi, except for the fact that we are usually late, the scheme is quite efficient, I do think.
<blino> warly: shouldn't we shift the release schedule of some months since the major releases of major applications (kde, gnome, openoffice) are often released some weeks before Mandrakelinux releases and can't be integrated in the distribution
<warly> newimr, but I am persuaded that longer release cycles does not mean better stability or quality.
<fundawang> blino, here is my 2 cents.
<warly> newimr, it just mean less hardware support in the between.
<Janfi> warly : if the global quality is increased, it's not a problem (see Debian...)
<warly> blino, I do not know, we could, be integrating the very last version of KDE or gnome one or two weeks after their release is not good either.
<warly> blino, for the 10.1 the KDE was quite old, and as a consequence I think that the 10.1 is a very good distro.
<misc> warly: fedora is doing it, but i do not think it is a good scheme
<Eugene_Weiss> You couldn't: you'd have to shift the release schedule by 2 months or so.
<warly> Janfi, nobody use debian stable, you cannot even install it on a recent machine.
<misc> Eugene_Weiss: well, if the release are equal for all software
<fundawang> but KDE team has quite a lot confidence on every KDE releases.
<misc> Eugene_Weiss: some other software will be late
<newimr> Why werent more updated or brand new rpms put into the community? There wasnt much difference with the official alog the months of their 10.0 existence.
<Eugene_Weiss> I agree with you, actually.
<newimr> along
<misc> Eugene_Weiss: maybe we will be on time for kde, but not for glibc, for gcc, for anything
<warly> newimr, mainly because needs a lot of work.
<fundawang> KDE 3.3RC was marked as final without any critical fixes.
<newimr> Couldnt such rpms as KDE3.3, gnome2.8, X.ORG and so forth be put into the community?
<Janfi> warly : yes, it's an extreme. 2 or 3 weeks are not problem, but not 2 years :-) !!
<warly> I tend to think that yes, whatever the release date, some project could not be integrated.
<Eugene_Weiss> I was'nt advocating, I was pointing out the difficulty.
<edbe9> On cooker you still find KDE 3.2.3. Are you still making changes for MDK Official?
<esfa> will the mirror lists (club) be ready when 10.1 official is available ?
<warly> newimr, of course they could, but this is quite a huge job to do, and any work done on the 10.1 community is time not spend on the 10.2
<misc> edbe9: no change
<misc> edbe9: cooker is frozen for the moment
<warly> newimr, I think that when a distro is done, it is done, and security updates should be enough.
<warly> newimr, you cannot have an up to date stable distro.
<Janfi> I've read that in november or december, another release of Community 10.1 (like 10.1.1) will be released with KDE 3.3. Any news ?
<newimr> warly: yes but isnt it the reason of existence of the community to test things in that process? Like the kde3.3 rpms on the 4rth CD.
<misc> Janfi: package for the club, i think
<warly> Janfi, maybe, nothing decided yet, but this is an option.
<blino> Janfi: kde 3.3 is already available for club members
<warly> newimr, not really, community is aimed to be a stable up to date distro.
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<warly> newimr, the official is just something to be sure the boxes will not have major hardware problems.
<warly> As long as you work on a version, you will find bugs and you will try to fix them.
<misc> warly: so, stop working on the version, and no bugs
<warly> You can wait for one month, 2 monthes, on year, you will still find bugs.
<warly> misc, yes basically, at one point you must say, ok, my work is now not productive anymore, because 99% of the user will be happy.
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<newimr> I know that. It's just that the community as an uptodate stable release with no uptodate rpm in it doesnt make much sense to me.
<warly> We need to always work for the majority.
<misc> newimr: it depend on what you call up^to date
<misc> newimr: latest release from xp has nothing new
<newimr> kde3.3 and nvidia rpms that work with the last kernels is what i cal uptodate
<warly> edbe9, the Official is supposed to be finished, soon cooker will be reopened.
<misc> newimr: for nvidia, the problem is from nvidia side
<warly> esfa, what do you mean?
<misc> newimr: having more "up to date" package will only bring more of this problem
<fundawang> newimr, but nv rpms are not GPLed, they cannot be put into community :p
<warly> newimr, KDE 3.3 on the 4th CD is to please the club member.
<newimr> misc:and i base my estimation on what is asked in the forums.
<warly> newimr, this is something not scheduled that we do as an extra work.
<robin> fundawang: for the club they can
<misc> newimr: see, for example, boa-constructor, a python editor, that do not work on newer wxwidget python binding
<esfa> warly, when 10.1 Community is made available for download, there were no mirror listed in the mirror-list section of the club
<newimr> fundawang: good point.
<blino> warly: Mandrakesoft uses dkms packages to build proprietary drivers packages, will they be available for Club members ?
<misc> newimr: each newer thing requires works
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<misc> newimr: and sometimes, it breaks too much
<warly> esfa, this must be a bug, we will then try to do it better for the official.
<warly> blino, I think so.
<blino> good
<warly> blino, but do not hesitate to ask Pascal or Stéphane if theyr forget.
<newimr> misc: that's why testing them in community would give some purpose to it. Right now, it had no uptodate rpms in it, or so few and nothing important. But now it isnt a test distros anymore? So what's the point?
<fundawang> newimr, KDEPIM 3.3 was in 10.1 Community
<misc> fundawang: for compatibility with kolab, i think
<esfa> warly: when a new kernel is made available, there are not the Nvidia driver available. does this will chnage ?
<misc> newimr: well, what you want is cooker then
<warly> newimr, things are now quite frozen, first because the 10.1 OFficial is not yet release, and second because people are having some rest after 10.1
<warly> esfa, this should already have changed.
<warly> esfa, are you sure new version are not put for club members ?
<misc> warly: no they are not
<newimr> anyway, I let the others ask their questions now.
<warly> This should be.
<eTTo> What do you think about the idea to pay Mandrake club silver level (and higher) in 2 times?
<warly> eTTo, I favor any idea for that kind of thing, even the monthly paiement.
<warly> eTTo, but we could not manage to find a agreement with a bank for such thing.
<eTTo> nice !
<fundawang> maybe a recharging card would be better, pascal?
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<warly> eTTo, this is incredible how bank could be difficult to deal with (sometimes?)
<eTTo> I know....
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<misc> warly: no money, no chocolate
<pascal_joly> eTTo: yes but it is not that simple to work with a US bank
<eTTo> yep
<edbe9> how about changing the bank? I had problems with bank transfer several times.
<pascal_joly> we are working on it currently
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<warly> Janfi does not really know what he wants, seem...
<pascal_joly> warly: where is Joana?
<warly> Joana, ah...
<newimr> et un cachou!
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<boy3a> where is mdk 10.1 official ??? i just coming
<warly> Joana, she should come back, but, well...
<fundawang> boy3a, it has not been made now
<newimr> boy3a not yet it seems
<esfa> when 10.1 is available for club members ? (may be it has been already answered... sorry)
<warly> boy3a, on my hard drive.
<boy3a> cool, an d when in mine ;)
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<warly> esfa, during November, we do not know the exact date now.
<pascal_joly> esfa: on november
<warly> What will be the ideal release cycle for you guys?
<warly> How often would you be ready to update your distro?
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<misc> warly: i think 9 month would be better
<colinou> once a year
<warly> once a year, once every 9, 6, 3, 2 months ?
<Eugene_Weiss> I think the twice yearly works well.
<esfa> once a year an official (november), twice a year a community
<boy3a> is there new module ipw2100 and firmware in mdk 10.1 off
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<robin> In sync with KDE would suit me
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<warly> misc, 9 months is a difficult timing as it does not repeat at the same time.
<fundawang> 2 months off on current schedule
<edbe9> 6 months, but with some flexibility when important packages are released.
<misc> warly: well, 9 month, like a child
<warly> The main trouble for the october release
<Eugene_Weiss> Trouble with 9 months is that it would come out in a different time of year each time.
<eTTo> 6 month for Community version and every year with Official could be nice
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<warly> Is that we must be available for christmas, and most retailer as to be referenced in september or october.
<esfa> so once a year in september (Official) twice a year for Community ;-)
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<warly> What do you think of a 4 months Community release and a 8 months Official ?
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<eTTo> why not...
<misc> warly: so, if we need to have periodic release, we have each 6, 4, 3, month or 12 month ?
<fundawang> sounds good.
<edbe9> warly: nice idea
<warly> The main trouble with a release every 4 months is the work needed.
<misc> warly: with upgrade possible from official to official ?
<eTTo> yes but on a DVD support
<esfa> 8 monts is not so good for Christmas sell
<warly> However with a release every 4 months we are more likely to have more up to date versions.
<eTTo> because 4 CDs each time....it's a little bit borring!
<blino> but less testing
<misc> eTTo: you can do netinstall, or use only the first cd
<warly> Well, right now we already have a updated community edition in between two major release.
<esfa> community in december, march, august, Official in september
<warly> Technically we are doing 6 release per year.
<Janfi> The DVD support was evocated with François. Many members wait for it. Some news ?
<misc> warly: but updated with security update
<colinou> i m agree with esfa
<warly> 10.0 Community, 10.0.1 (official), 10.0.2, 10.1 community, 10.1.1 (official), and maybe 10.1.2
<boy3a> sorry, is there new module & firmware in mdk 10.1, because the wep is disable
<boy3a> ipw2100 intel
<fundawang> warly: such an naming schema is too confused.
<misc> boy3a: no
<warly> boy3a, not sure.
<newimr> I'm for a 1 year official with conservative settings at the installation and as much community as you like but it's clear that it's a your on your own version.
<boy3a> why ?
<warly> fundawang, what do you mean? 10.1.0, 10.1.1, and 10.1.2, not clear enough?
<misc> newimr: conservative setting ?
<newimr> misc: like a kernel 2.4 by default when the 2.6 is fresh
<fundawang> warly: I mean if we are to release 2 communities per year,
<warly> blino? any updates of the ipw2100 in official?
<newimr> this kind of things
<misc> newimr: newer hardware is not supported by 2.6
<warly> newimr, this is more aimed in the corporate product.
<misc> newimr: mean, 2.4
<fundawang> 12.0 official, 12.1 Community, 12.2 Community, 12.3 Community
<misc> newimr: i have no problem with 2.6 on the computer i used
<newimr> misc: yes but the troubles with cdroms were affecting already material supported so it was a regression in that aspect.
<warly> Have you try the laters Move 2.0 ?
<misc> newimr: trouble with cdrom ?
<edbe9> How about offering Official once a year, and update CD /DVD with update rpms several times (when it makes sense)?
<newimr> and the acpi noapic nolapic things were a pita.
<blino> warly: let me check the updates of Centrino drivers
<misc> newimr: say it to kernel developers they will then report to hardware maker
<newimr> so people should have the option to go to 2.6 i agree, wut what is working should continue to work.
<pascal_joly> warly: i have, it works fine with a friend of mine
<warly> What you must understand anyway, is that adding new packages on an existing version is not so easy.
<misc> newimr: hardware requires a time to market shorter and shorter, and mdksoft cannot force people like some other redmond firm
<warly> Because if we spend more than 2 months to stabilize a version, just adding new KDE or gnome versions are quite a difficult tasks.
<warly> Of course you can just compile them and make them available, but we are bound to offer a little bit more quality.
<blino> warly: ipw2200 has been updated in 2.6.8.1-11mdk, no changes about ipw2100 since 2.6.8.1-10mdk, we could release an updated kernel in club in some weeks
<blino> (club or updates)
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<warly> And we must test again on all the hardware, in case some changes broke the interaction between layers.
<eTTo> Do you have the project to develop a Mandrake version for Palm?
<colinou> move2 works well but still with kernel options problems (noapic etc ...)
<misc> warly: the testing part of cooker could be rethinked
<warly> eTTo, not right now.
<boy3a> blino> you can put new ipw2100 firmware and module for the mdk 10.1 ?
<eTTo> well
<misc> eTTo: no, i do not think
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<warly> eTTo, I have made a key only move version, though, I may put them available for testing.
<misc> eTTo: linux doesn't work on palm pilot
<warly> eTTo, it works quite well with a 512 MB key (150 MB left for data, with KDE, koffice, mozilla...)
<eTTo> and Zaurus from Sharp?
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<blino> boy3a: I guess it won't be available in 10.1 Official, maybe later in updates, but that's not my decision
<newimr> misc: i agree with that. I'm just talking of installation time. Paying customers shouldnt be put in a position of testing a new kernel. That's where i see the community entering the picture.
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<warly> eTTo, it is not clear what real benefits we could bring in this area, and what the market will be ready to buy.
<misc> newimr: paying customer ?
<eTTo> OK
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<pascal_joly> Guys, gtg 
<eTTo> ...maybe in the futur...
<misc> pascal_joly: bye
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<warly> eTTo, maybe, but as we just reach again profitability, we should be very careful in new investments.
<misc> Nanar: \o/
<warly> Nanar.
<Nanar> wahou, an autojoin
<warly> What do you guys think of the future of Linux?
<warly> Of Mandrakelinux, compared to other distributions?
<blino> why not Hurd ?
<newimr> misc: packs owners. It's often their first contact to the distro or linux. It counts and they think that way.
<misc> newimr: well, i think thay could also be disappointed if the hardware didn't work fully
<Nanar> warly: I can compare with old RedHat
<Janfi> I take the TGV twice a week. I was alone with Tux. Now, I see more and more laptop with Linux running (and MDK)...
<warly> Nanar, what do you mean?
<Eugene_Weiss> I think Linux has a bright future. Mandrake must retain its edge on the desktop.
<misc> newimr: some bug were discovered when using software build on 2.6 on a older kernel
<colinou> difficult to say but competition will be hard i think
<warly> Janfi, this is nice.
<boy3a> what is the new laptop of Régis, please ?
<Eugene_Weiss> This could be hard because SuSE is making serious progree there.
<fundawang> Mandrakelinux is a strange distribution. It based on community like debian, but it is a commercial distribution like SuSE.
<warly> Janfi, and people reading the Patriarche?
<Nanar> warly: sorry nothing, I misunderstanding you
<newimr> misc: yes and it wasnt discover by the guy who did install his pack from fnac. This guy should find his cdrom after his installation.
<Eugene_Weiss> I'm the world's worst typist...
<Janfi> No...
<Janfi> Why ?
<misc> newimr: what is the bug you are talking about ?
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<Janfi> arg I have many deconnections sorry
<warly> Have you guys used other distros? Which ones, and what do you think of them?
<newimr> I dont know. Maybe they just didnt get magic dev installed. But the forums were filled of people having their cd or burner not found.
<misc> newimr: 10.1 ?
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<colinou> i used suse and the choise between mdk and suse is really difficult
<fundawang> MagicLinux, which concerntrate on Chinese supporting.
<newimr> misc: no 10.1 it's a wonderfull thing.
<misc> colinou: this is competition
<misc> newimr: for 10.0 then ?
<colinou> sure
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<newimr> misc:and 10.0 was really good for a x.0 mdk version
<edbe9> thanks for the chat. bye
<misc> newimr: for the 34 678th time, .0 mean nothing
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<eTTo> I read somewhere that Mandrake support the LSB 2 standard now. What will it change in the futur?
<misc> newimr: as mdksoft release each 6 month, a .0, .1, .2
<misc> eTTo: i would say nothing, but maybe stew can answer
<newimr> but there was some troubles that could have been avoided to _people_ with conservative settings while letting the more new settings available to testers and new hardware.
<warly> eTTo, right now LSB does not mean a lot, very few software vendors follow it.
<newimr> misc: i try them all since almost the first ones and it starts to be true.
<boy3a> can you check all the laptop and deskop you use at mandrakesoft, for use the same, and so less problem at home ?
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<newimr> i tried suse and i dont like yast. I prefer urpmi. I wcant live without urpmi.
<misc> newimr: maybe it was not the case 3 years ago, but there is no reason that .0 are more buggy
<newimr> misc: a new kernel?
<misc> newimr: the kernel is not tied to release number
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<misc> newimr: if linus had coosed to delay it, we could have had the 10.0 with 2.4
<newimr> misc; we could have had it anyway.
<misc> newimr: well, yes, but forced to have it
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<misc> newimr: 2.6 was planned, but not because it was a .0, only because it was ready
<newimr> misc: that is a point, then. Why forced?
<misc> newimr: it work for 90 % of user, i think
<colinou> what is the commercial politic of mdk , do you stay a distro for everybody or do like redhat and turn to pro apps only
<colinou> sorry for my english
<misc> newimr: of course, there is still some failure case, but it would have been the same with 2.4
<Janfi> I think MDK needs constructors (like HP & co) support such as SuSE, RedHat
<misc> newimr: and add to this the review, who say that mdk is not as smooth as XXX, because it doesn't include the 2.6 kernel
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<warly> colinou, we are still creating a userfriendly distributions, but we also have a corporate version.
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<warly> colinou, however we will stay on the public market.
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<misc> newimr: i am not sure that other distro give you the choice of kernel anyway. i was quite choked to see that fedora only provided the 2.6
<Daniel_Robles_464> Hi, is anyone getting bad signatures on CD 4-5 of mdk 10 pWP?
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<boy3a> when the mirror passing over cooker -> mdk 10.1 ?
<misc> boy3a: when the iso are released ?
<newimr> misc: what review? I would be chocked too not to have choice. I just said that the choice could be more conservative for official. That's all. If you have a biger picture of the situation than me, and know that 2.4 is better, fine.
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<boy3a> now is better to use mirror 10.1 community or cooker to go to the 10.1 off ?
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<misc> newimr: well, i do not say i am right
<newimr> misc: i don't say it either, that you are right.
<misc> newimr: if i had the choice, i would have chosen the newer kernel, based on testing from qa
<eTTo> well I'm leaving, goodbye
<misc> newimr: review on the web, etc
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<misc> eTTo: bye
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<newimr> misc: me too
<misc> newimr: so, i think the qa showed it works
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<newimr> but not for a front end users oriented distro. I would put it as an option. But I recognised it was a very good kernel from the start.
<misc> newimr: i used kernel 2.5 when it was availiable, and i didn't had much problem |
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