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<ChTy> 18h00 !
<Gael_Duval> so, welcome everybody
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<warly> Hey
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<warly> Bom Dia!
<ChTy> éhé
<guyclo> who starts ?
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<sobralnet> boas tardes a todos warly 
<Gael_Duval> so, who is launching the discussion?
<nomadic1> I'd be happy to.
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<Gael_Duval> don't be shy, go on...
<pascal_joly> We have good feedback on LE2005 Gael, isn t it ?
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<nomadic1> Ahh - ok.
<NicolasRichard> Nicolas_Lecureuilslt
<pascal_joly> where can we find some articles about it?
<nomadic1> Welcome everyone to the chat with Gael Duval, the founder of Mandrake Linux (now known as Mandrivaz)!
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<Gael_Duval> yes, the LE2005 seems to be approciated - and I do appreciate it...
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<fundawang> Especially the bad work of warly 
<nomadic1> Today's topics will include an overview of Mandriva 2006 as well as the release of at least one audio file relating to the pronounciation of Mandriva.
<nomadic1> Gael, would you like to start with your announcements or open the floor to questions first?
<pascal_joly> Mandreeeeva
<warly> fundawang: I forgot again some packages for CJK?
<neggwada8> hello all , only english tonight, i'd rather french
<fundawang> warly, no. You've set the wrong volumn label again
<neggwada8> for my posts
<Arkub> Gael: will we see Mandriva Linux on TV soon?
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<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: which announcement?
<nomadic1> Announement meaning the new features that are to be implemented in MAndriva 2006.
<Gael_Duval> Arkub: what do you mean by "on TV"? 8-)
<Arkub> I mean: ads.
<pascal_joly> nick: arkub2
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<Arkub> Like what Microsoft is doing... with Rolling Stones music etc.
<Gael_Duval> Arkub: of course. We just have to find a few million euros before.
<ver3tig>
<sobralnet>
<bubar> )
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<neggwada8>
<Gael_Duval> So let's talk about the 2006...
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<nomadic1> according to the email that announced this chat you were also going to cover "the technical and strategic sides of mandriva's future plans".
<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: never trust anny announcement ;)
<nomadic1> hehe
<ChTy> Gael_Duval : Is Mandriva provides other officiel version club before the 2006 for examplae ? and more genrally between the version in september ?
<Gael_Duval> the first feature of the 2006, is that it's going to be released in 2005...
<fundawang> Will smart replace urpmi, or as an alternative dependency solution?
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<ohan> what about connectiva integration?
<pascal_joly> not official version but a special kde 3.4 will come up
<headsman> Gael: I have a question then. In windows we had 'DLL hell', and sometimes in linux I feel we also have 'RPM hell'. Is there any plan to work on a universal/unified packaging system? (Like the philosophy of autopackage.org, rpm, deb, source, etc.)
<pascal_joly> for mdv club members
<Gael_Duval> ChTy: the release schedule for 2006 is not totally fixed yet, but there will certainly be a "2005+" version with KDE 3.4 before the 2006.
<nomadic1> All, please let Gael speak without interruption. Please hold all questions until he says he's ready to answer them. Thanks!
<ChTy> Gael_Duval ok thanks
<ChTy> Gael_Duval You can't be more precisly ?
<ChTy> Gael_Duval for the date ?
<Gael_Duval> Smart/URPMI should be merged or at least associated. Maybe Warly can say more on the topic.
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<Gael_Duval> headsman: regarding "RPM hell"... did you ever use Slackware? Personnally I never have any issue with RRM. Just never use --force or --nodeps and you'll be safe!
<warly> Well right now Smart is not yet mature enough to become the default, however it includes very powerfull dependencies algorithm, and definitively at some point we will either integrate them into urpmi or make smart the default package manager.
<Gael_Duval> (if I miss someone's question, please re-ask it!)
<nomadic1> @Gael: Would you please give us an overview of the new features that will be present in 2006? Many of us are curious as to which features of Connective will be integrated.
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<nomadic1> *Connectiva
<Gael_Duval> Conectiva (with only one 'n')
<nomadic1> gotcha
<bubar> ok warly. what about the deb' pkg into smart ? possible ?
<rgs> smart already supports .debs
<fundawang> bubar: you cannot install deb in Mandriva, of course.
<bubar> next urpmi include it ?
<neggwada8> i would like to have some informations about mandriva club, the new contents and the next release , pleae
<neggwada8> for e-learning
<Gael_Duval> Regarding 2006 features, kde 3.4, gnome 2.10, OO.org 2.0, dynamic firewall (on the desktop), and maybe a global search tool for the system...
<warly> bubar: you can use smart on a debian system, but smart IS NOT a abstraction layer over packages, you have to use mandriva rpm on a mandriva syste, mand deb packages on a debian system.
<bubar> dynamic firewall ???
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<bubar> ok warly. sorry. i dont known that. i ll try smart on my sarge then ;)
<javiermv> Gael: First, thanks for being here. I represent a spanish users community, Blogdrake. we would like to get Mandriva to age graciously, as it is a yearly distro now, BlogDrake users would like to see an official repositoy with most recent major packages, like KDE, Gnome, OpenOffice and Firefox or at least, stabilished cooker versions. I know there is the club source on testing on mirrors, and Warly talked on cooker about r
<ohan> @neggwada8: for elearning, you can post yours suggestions on the forum
<Gael_Duval> And now, there are more than 10,000 RPM packages for Mandriva, so maybe no need for debs ;)
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<pirnaver> Has Mandriva (company) figured out what it wants or will it continue to change directions all the time (Official Edition / Community Edition / new name / yearly releases / transitional releases ...)?
<Gael_Duval> javierm: what's your question exactly?
<neggwada8> thanks ohan
<bubar> Gael : i know, just because it is possible (?)
<NicolasRichard> Gael_Duval : active firewall? more informations please
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<Gael_Duval> pirnaver: I understand your concern. Anyway, there are only evolutions in the way we release products, not big changes.
<nomadic1> @Gael: I'm more curious about the enterprise (Corporate Server) side of the house. Will we see some of the MRTG-related tools, some form of deployment tools, etc. from Conectiva integrated into CS 2006?
<minskog> all thinks that i am reading are for dektop, but in a server? Why only one mysql version, for example? (sorry for my bad english)
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<fundawang> dynamic firewall? sth like kfirewall?
<Gael_Duval> Javier: there is always a free-downloadable version of Mandriva Linux (several ones actually!)
<bubar> or fw ? ;)
<javiermv> Gael: The first part it's a propostition for developing next versions of Mandriva. Secondly, my question is if that will be done will be only for club members or for everybody?
<pirnaver> Geal_Duval: If you plan upgrades it would nice to know how long next release would be supported.
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<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: we try to put what users/corporates need and suggest. Yours seems to be an excellent suggestion, and there shouldn't be much work since I guess MRTG packages are likely to exist for Mdv.
<nomadic1> @Gael: Correct, MRTG packages are available for Mdv, but they are not of the caliber that Conectiva's tool set offers.
<Gael_Duval> javiermv: the 2006 will also be available for download (3CD/DVD)
<fundawang> javiermv: there might be several community editions between 2006 and 2007
<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: OK, I'll forward your suggestion
<NicolasRichard> Gael_Duval : would you explains dynamic firewall? like windows firewall for example zone alarm? with interactive alerts ?
<nomadic1> Thank you. My next concdern is with your "licensing" model for Corporate Server.
<Gael_Duval> regarding the dynamic firewall, I can't say much about it, especially because if it's too "alpha software", we may postpone it to a later version... But the goal would be to black-list remote machines who try to scan your ports. For instance.
<nomadic1> If an enterprise purchases, say, a block of 100 licenses via PSMP for CS 3.0 today, and then you release CS 3.1 next week, there is currently no "upgrade protection" scheme in place and that client will not have free access to 3.1 even though their purchase of 3.0 is still fresh.
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<bubar> ok. is it possible to test it for the community who build it ?
<pirnaver> Do you plan to do more work on integration? (E.g. same file dialogs in KDE / firefox / openoffice.)
<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: of course this may be an issue. I'm not a specialist of the PSMP offer, but I think this can be "negociated" (access to the N+1 version if it happens during the next week)
<Gael_Duval> pirnaver: this is an interesting question...
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<Gael_Duval> on the first hand, the temptation is to release a very "unified" product...
<Gael_Duval> (on the ergonomy/look & feel side)
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<nomadic1> @Gael: Thanks again. My next question is with the setup tools on a fresh installation of Corporate Server.
<Gael_Duval> on the other hand, everytime you hack KDE or GNOME or any component, you potentially add bugs, and the whole thing becomes more and more difficult to maintain
<Gael_Duval> the best way is to have Gtk+/Qt/KDE/GNOME... maintainer sit around the table and define a common look & feel
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<Gael_Duval> they may have a beer at the same time as well
<pascal_joly> dc
<nomadic1> @Gael: Like many enterprises we do not install nor run any X environmentsx on our servers. With the way CS is currently set up this means we have no way to evver "register" the install if you so desired, and we also have no way to easily set up update mirrors for URPMI, etc.
<pirnaver> Do you think also distribution should cooperate more (configuration tools / software packages)?
<nomadic1> @Gael: We would love to see text-based "welcome" tools for CS, something like (I hate to say this) RedHat uses for their server peroductsw.
<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: this is a controversial question :-)
<Tom_Debruyne_723> General question about commercial applications supported on Mandriva. For the corporate versions for example, is Mandriva "lobying" to get important commercial applications ported to their platform?
<minskog> Gael_Duval: i insist in mandriva at server. what will be the roadmap, life, ... and why only one version of mysql, for example. Im very interested at this becausa i am trying to migrate servers to madriva (not corporate)
<Gael_Duval> my personal feeling is that Mandriva should differentiate even on the server, with a minimal X interface, but I know there are security concerns and others
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<Tom_Debruyne_723> For example, the Linux apps the company I work for produces are only officially supported on RHEL
<nomadic1> @Gael: I can appreciate the controversy, but considering the update mirrors for URPMI ar enot easy to find (it's not like you publish them and this means they are missing from the Easy URPMI site as well) it's doubly difficult to set up update mirrors for URPMI in CS. :\
<Gael_Duval> anyway, regarding the CS product registration, it should be possible without even running X, this should be addressed in the next versions
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<javiermv> is going to change the club web sometime in the future? I think it's not a very attractive site (in look and feel) for new members to join in (and this appears to be something important to mandriva's future).
<Gael_Duval> Tom: yes, we are planning to be more active on ISV lobying
<Gael_Duval> minskog: the roadmap is quite clear: the Corporate server is released approximately every 18 months with an engagement from Mandriva on how long it will be supported
<fundawang> Gael: Will we change our domain name from mandrivalinux.com to mandrivalinux.org soon?
<nomadic1> @Gael: I spoke earlier of deployment tools for CS and I'd like to give mor einfo on it...
<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: ok, understood, I know what u are talkin about
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<pirnaver> How important is feedback from club members to Mandriva. E.g. could we have some kind of voting system for features we would like to see in next release?
<nomadic1> @Gael: The way we usually deploy MDK/MDV desktops is to do a minimal install from CD, then set up the URPMI mirrors, then grab apps/updates from the mirrors. However, the way CS packaging is released this is currenlty impossible to do with our servers.
<Gael_Duval> javiermv/funda: this is a scoop: we're going to merge mandrivalinux.com & mandriva.com before the end of the year, with a new look, new organization and so on.
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<nomadic1> @Gael: We can set up our own net-installer, but this lacks alot of the management/image handling that are found in products like JumpStart/KickStart
<Gael_Duval> pirnaver: there is already http://www.mandrivaclub.com/modules.php?name=RPM
<Gael_Duval> but you may also subscribe the cooker list, and provide suggestions - or to me, I will forward
<nomadic1> @Gael: I know Conectiva has a deployment platform along these lines so I'd love to see it used with CS 2006
<pirnaver> I think this question was not answered so I will repeat it: Do you think also distribution should cooperate more (configuration tools / software packages)?
<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: ok, I understand exactly how you deal with the deployment, and it should be better addressed in later releases... (I'll see with the marketing dep/R&D)
<nomadic1> Thanks!
<analin> @Gael: I have signed up for the USA partner program and share the concerns of nomadic1. At the moment we cannot actively market, because the corporate product has so many issues!
<Gael_Duval> pirnaver: the more cooperation there is, the best it is
<Gael_Duval> analin: ok, but 1) it's solid 2) it answer most of corporate needs - so it's not so bad :-)
<nomadic1> @Gael: Right, it's not that it's "bad"... it's just missing a lot of enterprise-level tools so it's a little more difficult to sell our CIO's on it.
<nomadic1> Couple that with the licensing concerns with upgradesw and I've had a lot of drawn-out meetings. heh
<plouf34> what about "connectiva technologie" and sun jre in public release
<analin> @Gael: Agreed that it is solid, but we are often trying to convert folks from other platforms and relatively small problems are big problems to getting them to convert!
<Gael_Duval> ok, I think this means there is some room for improvement, and the merger with Conectiva should be an excellent opportunity to address all these issues that you have
<pirnaver> How does mandriva decide what bugs should be fixed before the release?
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<Gael_Duval> what's the question with sun jre exactly?
<plouf34> this always a problem to package java apps
<woodcarver> I will be migrating our son's computer system to Mandriva soon and am very impressed with the usablility of LE005 right now. My problem has been with usb and Nvidia which was solved by enabling acpi. My question is are you seeing more cooperation yet from the device manufacturers as far as sharing their drivers? This would go a long way in assisting corporate and desktop users migrate. Just have to say I believe Mandriva is the best of all d
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<Nicolas_Lecureuil> gael: will be the jre in download edition of mdv ?
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<Gael_Duval> regarding bugs: there are categorized, and prioritized through our bugzilla - some bugs can stop a release to happen, others not
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<fundawang> plouf and Nico: I think it will be included only when it become GPLed.
<nomadic1> My thoughts on the JRE: I don't want to see it in the distro becasue 1) It's not yet Open Source
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<plouf34> Jre license has change other distro like suse include jre in dl version
<Gael_Duval> woodcarver: yes, there is cooperation... we talk to ATI/NVIDIA and many others many often
<Gael_Duval> Nicolas: I don't think we are going to put proprietary software in the download edition, or RMS is going to be mad about us.
<nomadic1> @plouf34: Are you sure that's the Sun JRE that comes with SuSE, not Kaffe Java or PLF Java?
<plouf34> jre is freely distributable
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<pirnaver> Could we (club members) in the future test distribution with comercial drivers before release? Some things (like winmodem driever) don't seem to be integrated that well.
<plouf34> plf for suse :p
<minskog> is jre
<Gael_Duval> plouf34: there is a difference between being redistributable and being open-source/free-software... Our download edition is redistributable *and* 100% FOSS
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<Tom_Debruyne_723> Couldn't it be added like in Gentoo for example, with instructions to download the file on Sun web site and then a Mandriva installer?
<fundawang> And, will SUSE support JRE natively? I think Novell is about to replace JRE with mono :p
<bubar> plouf : plf for suse is ok
<warly> pirnaver: this was the case with the 2005, you got DVD with commercial packages for RC1 and RC2
<pirnaver> warly: thanks, I missed that
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<minskog> why standard club users dont have a compelte dvd?
<plouf34> bubarplf do not package for suse
<nomadic1> @Gael: I have one more concern regarding package management: I have not been happy that I have to hit a 3rd party site (Easy URPMI) in order to get a good, solid and current listinf of URPMI mirrors for every edition, and again since there's no way to centrally manage packagfes/installs it's a tough issue.
<warly> hpmanfr !
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<hpmanfr> Hi Warly
<nomadic1> @Gael: Is thre anything in the works to get better URPMI mirror support directly integrated with the distro itself?
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<fundawang> nomadic1: you might want to try urpmi.setup
<javiermv> would eclipse, azureus and others programas written in java, be integrated in commercial version? (jpackage is in a horrible state right now)
<plouf34> nomadic1 edit-urpm-sources.pl
<nomadic1> @fundawang: that's hit or miss depending on how often tgh eMDV team has updated the mirror avilability (it lags pretty badly most of the time)
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<fundawang> nomadic1: you can select mirror servers by country/region within rpmdrake, in LE2005. Don't know about corp products.
<bubar> plouf34: not the same name, but the same functiuns. not here. in pv if you want
<nomadic1> I've found Easy URPMI to be much more accurate regarding the availability of current and active mirrors.
<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: URPMI/RPMdrake should be capable to handle update sources cleanly - you can report bugs it there are. Anyway, I would not be against to provide easyurpmi on our website, officially...
<analin> @Gael: Yes, better update integration would be important, particularly when multiple versions of products are available. Upgrades to one component shouldn't cause the full KDE-Base being removed!
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<Gael_Duval> nomadic1: it seems that it has improved in the 2005, didn't it?
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<nomadic1> I have not tested out LE2005 yet but I certainly will.
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<nomadic1> (our enterprise is currently at 10.1 aand CS 2.1)
<analin> @Gael: I think things have improved more in the 32bit world... The 64bit world is where I am having the most problems
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<oden> we could look at how the clamav folks keep their database mirrors in shape using dns records.
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<oden> and use that technique to tell the user which mirror to use.
<oden> ?
<Leslie_Anthis_278> any thoughts on a depends tool for installing from software from source, like gentoo's emerge?
<Leslie_Anthis_278> not to replace urpmi but to enhance software installs that don't have rpm
<Gael_Duval> Leslie: rpm -ba package.spec, urpmi package.rpm :)
<analin> @oden: Yes, the average user trying to update is not interested in choosing mirrors, particularly ones that don't work. They want a "Windows update" experience...shudder!
<fundawang> analin: they should try to subscribe mandrivaonline :)
<pirnaver> warly: don't you think bugs like #11386 should be fixed before release?
<oden> analin: the beauty of that is that you could automate the database mirror list in the dns by looking at congestion availabilty and such.
<ohan> mandrivaonline works fine :)
<warly> pirnaver: no.
<minskog> i am very interested to known why standard club users dont have a complete dvd? I think that 60 euros for one distro at year are enough and for a lot o people it is a sizeable expense
<pirnaver> warly: could you explain? Or is it off topic here?
<warly> pirnaver: fixing this bug require kernel hacking and kernel is something we'd better not change too close of the final version.
<fundawang> warly: It would be better add anther testzilla entry: Install from disk-iso...
<analin> @ohan: Mandrivaonline has some domain certificate issues at the moment.
<plouf34> Gael_Duval why no paypal or allopass for commercial rpms
<warly> fundawang: yep, definitively
<Gael_Duval> minkog: there are several distros and many other benefits for 60 euros. And there is at least the DVD download version for Standard, isn't it?
<warly> pirnaver: sometime it is better to know what is broken instead of fixing something you have no idea of the potential consquences.
<minskog> the same version that non-pay users ;)
<pirnaver> warly: bug was opened in 2004.09.10
<Gael_Duval> yes, but you get it before...
<plouf34> Gael_Duvalfor most people club is to expensive
<pirnaver> warly: do you think it is a kernel configuration issue, as users report it works with other distributions?
<minskog> three week dont cost 60 euros :)
<warly> pirnaver: it may be a bug the kernel team do not look with enough attention too.
<plouf34> Gael_Duval like itune but for commercial rpms
<Gael_Duval> Guys: are there important topics that you'd like to cover yet? I'll have to quit in a few minutes...
<javiermv> i think there is no value on free software, having something before the rest of the world
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<ver3tig> what will be the future attitude to non-official mandriva-users sites?
<fundawang> Gael: Do you have any plan to across the atlantic?
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<fundawang> Like Opera's CEO?
<warly> pirnaver: we definitively have to set up priority in bug fixing, and maybe the kernel team decided this specific hardware is not so common, or that the work to fix it is too important compared to the other problems.
<ver3tig> :)
<Gael_Duval> plouf34: it's not easy to find the "good" price (= the price which going to generate the more cash to Mandriva). But we think about it, for sure!
<analin> Gael: What do you see the real advantages of the USLinux Solution Provider Program?
<bubar> good price ? if doz=150 rotas, then mdv=180 rotas.
<bubar> ;) troll, sorry
<nomadic1> @Gael and warly: Thank you for having this chat with us. I appreciate you taking the time. :)
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<Gael_Duval> ver3tig: please elaborate...
<bubar> just one word : THANKS for all
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<analin> Gael: It seems that Mandriva already has its hands full with other efforts.
<bubar> may the packets be with you again and to a long time :)
<analin> Gael: Thanks for your time...
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<ver3tig> well, I know there have been some problems in the past about Mandriva attitude towars non-official sites. But this has greatly improved the last half year. Will you keep following this path?
<Gael_Duval> analin: very frankly, I don't know yet about the US Linux solution provider program yet to talk about it...
<pirnaver> Gael and warly: thank you for your answers.
<analin> @Gael: Ok, so it's not just me - a member of the program!
<NicolasRichard> will the 64 bits become the default arch for LE2005 ?
<Gael_Duval> ver3tig: this is a very general question! :) we try to protect Mandriva assets, and be friendly with the community at the same time!
<warly> NicolasRichard: not yet.
<NicolasRichard> for LE 2006 sorry
<ver3tig> sorry, didn't know how to put it :)
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<warly> NicolasRichard: now the LE2005 DVD box comes with both 32bit and 64bit DVD
<Leslie_Anthis_278> Thank you Gael
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<warly> NicolasRichard: for 2006, the x86_64 part will likely increase, but we still have more 32bit users.
<Gael_Duval> thx to all, and as promised for all you English-speaking people:
<Gael_Duval> http://images.mandriva.com/img/sound/mandriva.mp3
<Gael_Duval> http://images.mandriva.com/img/sound/mandriva.ogg
<plouf34> is there possible to have cd cover in club ?
<NicolasRichard> warly: but all packages are build for 32 bits and adapted after for 64
<javiermv> thanks gael :)
<NicolasRichard> thanks Gael
<Nicolas_Lecureuil> nicolasRichard: and ?
<warly> NicolasRichard: from now we will try to recompile them at upload
<pirnaver> Gael_Duval: that should be a sound that is played when you test sound card / server. :)
<fundawang> I think i've already got it from adam's blog...
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<Gael_Duval> OK - I really have to go now, thx again!
<ver3tig> thank you
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